Background: the First Century

This, as well has details of the history of the Society, contains information about the background to the Barrington Lectures(1), which formed such an important part of JJ's activity during the 1920s, and which he continued to influence and participate in during the 30s and 40s.

Names associated with the foundation of the Society and with its outreach work included John Stuart Mill and Nassau Senior, and relations were developed with literary and other societies throughout the country.

The SSISI Today

The Society is still going strong, providing a regular meeting-place for Irish economic gurus and their critics, in the Economic and Social Research Institute, Burlington Road, Dublin 4.

I won't attempt to review Mary Daly's history of the SSISI (see note 1) here, but I take the opportunity to mention in passing that she identifies the leading lights of the SSISI before 1914, when JJ was forming his ideas, as being Liberal, typical being CH Oldham, also AW Samuels MP for Dublin University, the former being an explicit Home Ruler, while the latter in his SSISI papers was implicitly so, though labelled a Liberal Unionist. As late as 1917, when Partition was visibly on the agenda, Oldham remained an all-Ireland Home Ruler, reflecting what was then an important sector of educated Protestant opinion.

JJ and the SSISI

The philosophy motivating this foundation linked the Liberal 'free trade' ethos with technical competence as the best basis for industrialisation, in opposition to the protectionism then being promoted by the English Tories, and by Arthur Griffith in Ireland, under the influence of the German economist List. The SSISI in the 1900s and 1910s was very much under the Oldham influence, and JJ would appear to have been motivated to support it, especially because of its connection with the Barrington Lectures, which before the War had been a means of promoting Liberal Home Rule ideas publicly all over Ireland.

According to Mary Daly the Society took steps to revive the Barrington Lectures in 1919, but this fell foul of a dispute between the Council and its Librarian, Shannon Millin, who had entered into a correspondence with the Commissioners of Charitable Bequests without their permission. The result was that the matter was allowed to lapse, and they Barrington Lectures remained outside the ambit of the SSISI for the next decade or so. The Barrington Trust however appointed JJ as Lecturer, and he took over the task single-handed. This was outside the record of the SSISI, which at its meeting January 29 1920 has declined to take on the administration of the Trust.

It would appear however that JJ had on his agenda the restoration of the SSISI Barrington link, and with this in mind he applied for membership and was accepted by the Council on Nov 14 1924, in a major cohort of 22 Oldham recruits, which included RJ Mortished, Prof John Busteed and a Plunkett House representative.

By this time JJ was beginning, at least outside TCD, to have a reputation as an economist, having served on the Free State Agricultural Commission. His membership of the Oldham-recruited 'group of 22', destined to revive the SSISI after its wartime decline, is in character.

During the first half of the 20s the SSISI meetings were mostly in Plunkett House, and there was the makings of a linkage or at least a friendly understanding with the IAOS. The Plunkett House Library was supported by the Carnegie Trust, and the Librarian Florence Marks on Nov 22 wrote to the SSISI, transmitting a suggestion from George Russell that the Library be made available to SSISI members.

The sequence of meetings was as follows: May 28 and July 16 1920 93 St Stephen's Green, Jan 13 1921 RDS, Feb 4 1921 Plunkett House; there is a letter from Sir Horace Plunkett on record regretting his inability to be present to welcome them. The following 3 meetings in 1921 were there, then the last one on Dec 15 was at the RDS. In 1922 they oscillated between Plunkett House and Fitzwilliam Place. Meetings continued in 1924 and the first half of 1925, but then on June 19 1925 they accepted the invitation of the RIA, where they remained subsequently for many decades.

Mary Daly identifies the problem with Plunkett House simply as the timing: they were only allowed meet at 5pm, while they preferred 8pm meetings. It is possible however to put a deeper interpretation on this, given what is known about the background. If Sir Horace and the IAOS had been motivated to do so, they would have opened the place in the evenings, and helped to build up interest in, and use of, their library, which was dedicated to the promotion of co-operative principles of economic development.

Notoriously however Sir Horace's house was burned down in the Civil War, and he lost interest in Irish affairs, moving most of the assets of the Plunkett Foundation to Oxford, where it exists to this day as an important resource relevant to the world co-operative movement. The rupture of the embryonic link between the IAOS and the SSISI can be identified as one of the most tragic institutional casualties of the Civil War.

In the Albert Kahn sequence there is a reference in the Garnier correspondence to setting up a resource centre in Ireland, and JJ was advocating that this be hosted by the Plunkett House library(2). This was in mid 1922. I can find no trace of this either in Plunkett House itself or in Oxford. The use of the library for this purpose was undoubtedly on JJ's agenda, and the link with the SSISI would have been part of the ideas-promotional network which he aspired to develop.

Having accepted defeat in his Plunkett House plans, JJ turned his priority attention to the SSISI itself, and on October 19 1925, at the Society's first meeting in the RIA, JJ was elected to the Council, along with Dr Rowlette, T Barrington and RJ Mortished. At this same meeting of Council a standing committee was set up to make suggestions to the Government regarding the coming Census; this was chaired by the President (Oldham) and included JJ, Rowlette, Mortished and J Eason.

On May 6 1926 Tom Barrington read a paper on 'a review of Irish agricultural prices', and JJ took part in the discussion(2). On October 26 Justice Meredith was elected President. Meredith was of the same Protestant Home Ruler tradition as Oldham and JJ; he had been associated with the Sinn Fein courts; there is a book on this topic by Mary Kotsonouris.

On February 24 1927 GA Duncan read a paper on 'rural industrialisation'; Father Finlay and JJ spoke to it. This was JJ's network; Duncan was his colleague in TCD, Father Finlay was a legendary co-operative movement activist. JJ was clearly using the SSISI to promote Plunkett House economics, as best he could, despite the breaking of the link(3).

It will be seen from the TCD Board sequence that JJ would at this time have been pulling together a Report arising out of his Rockefeller Foundation project, in which he was studying the spread of prices between producers and consumers, using French and other continental experience(4). Taking producer co-operative control of the distribution system, and linking it with the consumer co-operatives, must have been his objective. His SSISI paper would appear to have been a 'dry run' for his Report, which however seems to have got lost, as the Rockefeller Foundation has no record of it, though they have record of his Fellowship.

During the years which followed JJ was a fairly regular attender at meetings, though living in Dundalk and Drogheda from 1928 to 1934, and then from 1940 to 1946. When there he often contributed to the discussions, and sometimes contributed papers. I list these below.

26/01/28 C Eason on the Report of the Poor Law Commission
26/04/28 Health insurance
02/04/28 Oireachtas as a National Economic Council
30/05/28 Exam Statistics

15/06/29 JJ on National Transport was accepted by Council for 1930
15/11/29 Banks

16/01/30 Thekla Beere on 'language revival in Ireland, Norway and Wales' (I put this in because JJ must have been instrumental in inviting her, seeing as she was very close to his sister Anne, and a co-founder of the Youth Hostels Association; the two of them were Protestant language revivalists in the Civil Service.

At Council on 21/02/30 JJ proposed a motion that papers read at meetings should not be published without due authorisation. Then on 20/03/30 JJ read his paper on national transport problems(3).

JJ attended Council meetings on May 27 and then on October 10; at the latter a lunch was planned for November 22 or 24 in honour of Sir Josiah Stamp who would be in Ireland at the time, Ministers Blythe and McGilligan were to be invited, also Professor Joly the TCD geophysicist.(5).

JCM Eason the President delivered his inaugural paper on 14/11/30, the vote of thanks being given by the outgoing president Justice JC Meredith, and seconded by JJ. JJ attended the Council meeting on December 6 1930 at which he undertook to deliver a paper on March 19 1931 on 'Winter Dairying'(6).

At about this time the Barrington Trust again surfaces on the SSISI agenda, thanks to a letter from JJ which was on the agenda of the Council meeting on November 21 1930. It was agreed to refer the matter to an ad hoc committee consisting the JJ, Justice Meredith and the Officers of the Society.

The 'winter milk' paper analysed the supply constraints on Irish dairy exports, which were dominated by seasonal effects, resulting in Irish produce being pushed out of the British market by the Danes.

(The present writer had another run at this problem, with a computer modelling approach, for Bord Bainne in 1972. The problem is still with us, the summer peak milk production presenting a disposal problem, and the associated spring calving peak presenting a related problem as regards meat production in the autumn. JJ's analysis remains valid to this day, and the problem of consistent quality and smoothed supply of meat and milk products will remain with us until Irish farmers come around to a consistent winter feeding regime, as is the case for the liquid milk market.)

JJ remained on the Council for 1931/32, and at the Council meeting on September 31 1931 the president JCM Eason opened up again the question of the Barrington Trust, the ad-hoc committee having reported. Manliff Barrington by this time was the only Trustee and he had declared the intention of continuing to consult the Society as he had done in the past. The JJ solo interlude was being post facto taken on board. JJ spoke to JP Colbert's paper on 17/12/31, the topic being 'currency problems in the IFS'.

At the Council meeting on October 12 1931 JJ made a proposal relating to the Barrington lectures, and then on February 4 1932 is was decided to seek press cuttings relating to the lectures. On April 7 the president JCM Eason '...stated that the position with regard to the Barrington lectures was somewhat unsatisfactory in the northern area..'. On February 26 a paper by Justice Meredith on 'Separate Markets for the Unemployed' was delivered, and JJ spoke to it; it seems the meeting was lively and controversial, being adjourned to March 11.

There is then a long hiatus as regards JJ's participation in general meetings, but he was active on the Council in getting the Barrington Lectures upgraded and extended to cover all of Ireland. His next paper delivered to the Society was on the depressed state of Irish agriculture(7). The content of this paper was echoed in JJ's December 1935 Barrington lecture at Termonfeckin, and according to Mary Daly the press reports gave rise to controversy, and got JJ into trouble with the Barrington Trust. The objective was to end the economic war, and it was highly critical of the Fianna Fail government's policy(8).

JJ's participation in the SSISI Council in the latter part of the 30s appears to have been totally dedicated to ensuring that the Barrington lectures continued to exist and be taken seriously. There are regular references to 'reports' but these seem to have been lost. When JJ was elected to the Senate in 1938, his position was strengthened.

Issues addressed appear to have related to the Northern lecturer Lemberger; JJ seems to have wanted to get rid of him, re-advertising the position. JJ tried to get Duncan or Meenan to take it on, without success. Then in the end he succeeded in getting Lloyd-Dodd; the latter was elected to SSISI membership on 10/01/38, and a paper was projected for him. There was also a joint committee with the Engineering and Science Society(9) set up, to consider road transport; Shanahan was to act for the Society.

On May 17 1938 JJ and Dr Rowlette were congratulated on their election to the Senate. On November 25 1939 JJ attended a Council meeting and agreed to deliver a paper on 'agricultural prices and costs in Eire and NI'. There is little record of JJ's participation during the war period, but then he was living in Drogheda, and depending on the GNR train and his bicycle. There is no record of his projected paper having been delivered. He did however keep in touch by correspondence, and was able to see to it that the Barrington lectures continued, on an all-Ireland basis.

On February 27 1942 JJ delivered a crucial paper(10) in which he challenged the then current conventional wisdom that small farms were intrinsically more productive per man and per acre than large; it all depended on the effective use of instrumental capital, organisational and management. He gave figures for large farms known to him which had achieved high productivity per man and per acre, and foreshadowed some of the arguments he used later in favour of managed large farms owned co-operatively by groupings of neighbouring small ones.

On April 27 1944 the SSISI held a session on Irish external trade, in an attempt to preview the coming post-war situation. The main paper was given by Dr Henry Kennedy, who drew attention to the low productivity of the land, and estimated how much it might be increased. There were contributions from others, including JJ who stressed our dependence on British policies over which we had no control(11).

Then in 1945 with George O'Brien as president, JJ went back into the front line of Barrington lecturing, continuing during 1946 and 47. He produced a paper which I suspect embodied some of the ideas he was attempting to promote(12). This was mis-titled in her index by Mary Daly, who referenced it as '...Irish Agriculture' (p233). She is not to be blamed for this, because the SSISI itself mis-titled the paper in the table of contents of its Proceedings. In fact the 'rural civilisation' label was significant and related to a preview of what currently is emerging as the 'eco-village' movement(13). JJ developed further the idea of an organised co-operative relationship between a group of farms of varying sizes, focused on a centre which made use of residual 'big-house' resources. This could well have been distilled from his current Barrington Lectures, though this is subject to confirmation, as I have not been able to find press reports of these. JJ did however set some store by this paper, as he ordered reprints to distribute, of which a small stock remains.

After something of a hiatus during 1948 (during which he moved house twice) he shows up again during Roy Geary's Presidency, contributing on 2/12/49 to Social Security symposium, in absentia, along with Eason, Mortished and others(14). He was critical of the way social security on the British model in the North had undermined the supply of farm labour. Then on 10/2/50 he spoke to a paper on 'mid-Roscommon farms', this indicating his growing interest in a micro-economic approach, later to be dismissed by the new wave of econometric and statistical-economic gurus as 'anecdotal'.

Then in 1950 it came to be JJ's turn to be President, having served his time on the Council for over two decades. Thekla Beere was Honorary Secretary. He continued up to 1953. During this period there were initially a rich crop of significant papers by people who subsequently became influential, though it might be said that towards the end of his second term he began to lose interest, when he made his post-war move back to the land, taking up a market-gardening enterprise near Stradbally in Laois. He was replaced by JP Beddy as President in June 1953. He continued on the Council, being re-elected on 11/06/54 along with George O'Brien and PS O'Hegarty. but he sunk into oblivion as regards Society decision-making after 1955, although they elected him a Vice-President on 16/05/58.

During his Presidency he attended and contributed regularly. Papers included John O'Donovan on 'state enterprise' (12/05/50), James Meenan on the Universities (26/05/50), TJ Keenan on 'Catholic ecclesiastical statistics' (6/10/50), P Brennan on 'economics of air transport' 3/11/50), and then on December 8 1950 JJ gave his Presidential paper(15). Perhaps under some pressure from Geary and the incoming wave of econometric specialists, in this JJ abandoned his 'anecdotal' micro-techno-economic mode of analysis, and came up with detailed macro-analysis, supported by statistics, of the relationship between crops and livestock. His main message was to stress their interdependence, and the primacy of grass as a crop.

In 1951 then we have on February 15 Eason on '10-year comparisons', April 20 N Cuthbert on 'income in NI', May 31 Hans Staehle on Irish agricultural statistics 1847-1913'. The autumn papers in 1951 however did not get organised. In the spring of 1952 there was a recovery, with a Symposium on National Income and Social Accounts, with Geary, Smiddy and Barrington. On April 28 we have Garrett Fitzgerald on 'air transport rates and fares', JJ contributing to the discussion, though alas the record is missing.

On May 23 1952 JJ was re-elected for his second term as President, despite his lapse of autumn 1951, which would have been associated with his move to Grattan Lodge. There followed RF Browne on 'electricity supply' (13/6/52), JJ contributing to the discussion; this was the early days of the rural electrification drive. There was a big influx of new members, mostly from the North. On 30/10/52 we had F King on 'Absolutism', and then on 17/12/52 Brendan Senior on 'Agricultural Education and Research', with JJ again contributing to the discussion(16). The basis was being laid for the development of the Agricultural Institute at the end of the 50s. (JJ's role in the politics of the foundation of An Foras Taluntais was recognised positively by Dr Tom Walsh its first Director; he felt moved to attend JJ's funeral in 1972.)

Then on February 5 1953 JJ delivered his paper on Economic Leviathans; Roy Geary spoke to it(17). This was subsequently published as a pamphlet. After this JJ disappears from view, being succeeded by Beddy. Dr McCarthy of UCC took the chair in JJ's absence for EA Grace's paper on 'accounting and economic decisions'. JJ surfaced again however on November 30 1953 for BF Shields' paper on CIE and the GNR 1945-51, where he seconded the vote of thanks.

Under Beddy's Presidency there was a sequence of papers involving Bob O'Connor, Donal Flood, Geary, MJ Costello, CS Andrews, Ruairi Roberts, Donal Nevin and others. Then in 1955 there was a big influx of corporate affiliations.

In the Council record it becomes clear that JJ's main attention during his Presidency was to develop the Northern Ireland dimension, via the Barrington lectures, particularly with N Cuthbert, and with the recruitment of Carter and the Queens people, including Isles. The Isles and Cuthbert Report, which was the first serious critical look at the performance of Northern Ireland as an economy, was one of the results of this all-Ireland networking, in which JJ was the prime mover. He never lost sight of his roots, and always worked to keep alive the N-S linkages(18). There was also later a Barritt and Carter Report. The seeds of this critical work were sown by the NI outreach of the SSISI during JJ's period on the Council and during his Presidency.

He was also influential in attempting to resurrect his earlier Barrington work promoting the co-operative movement in Connaught; there was a paper by Stanley Lyons on December 2 1952 on this topic, based on his Barrington Lectures. The Lyons lectures had been arranged via the Young Farmers Clubs, Muintir na Tire and Parish Councils.

Despite JJ's declining level of attendance, due to his Laois interests, his NI influence seems to have persisted, with the momentum of his NI recruitment. There was a Report from the NI Branch on Sept 20 1958 in which a paper was projected by JW Garmany of Magee College on Training for Management(19).

On May 1 1959 JJ surfaced again as a contributor to a session related to the Whittaker policy revolution(20). It was adjourned unfinished, being re-convened on May 22. Then on December 11 JJ spoke to Bob O'Connor's paper on 'economic utilisation of grassland'. On foot of this revived activity he was re-elected to Council on May 13 1960. He was at this time living near Stradbally but staying in his rooms in TCD during the mid-week.

JJ's last encounter with the SSISI occurred when he submitted a paper in 1964 on Consumer Demand as the Basis of Credit(21). Roy Geary and TK Whitaker both agreed that it should be rejected, on the ground that it 'pertained more to philosophy than economics'. In 1966 according to Mary Daly JJ explained to Attwood that 'the Society has gone all econometric and papers are usually incomprehensible...'.

RJ and the SSISI

Colm O h-Eocha contributed a paper on 'The Science Budget' on 20/3/70; this was one of his earlier contributions to the public debate about science policy, arising from his chairing the National Science Council. He defined what science policy was, and categorised it under several focused headers, against a somewhat diffuse background. He drew on international comparisons.

I participated in the discussion(23), having then just commenced producing a regular weekly column on 'Science and Technology' for the Irish Times. In my contribution I homed in on the economists' concept of 'residuals' and urged scientists to make known their work better, and to convey to the economics community the importance of science-based technological knowhow as the major engine of economic advance. The 'residual' is the reservoir of human creativity. Patrick Lynch was supportive, pointing out that Adam Smith and Karl Marx had seen clearly the role of science in economic development, though in contemporary Britain the view was hazy. He castigated economists for their failure to analyse the 'residuals' where this type of knowhow lurked.

I delivered a paper in on scientific and engineering manpower in Ireland, based on the computerised analysis of the 1971 census(24). The work was done in 1973, but the paper did not get to be delivered until January 9 1975. It was co-authored with Genevieve Franklin. The reason for the delay was that the Census people did not get around to publishing what I had used until then, and they did not want me to upstage them.

This opportunity arose as a result of the inclusion in the 1971 Census of a question relating to qualifications in science and technology, a consequence of the setting up of the National Science Council (NSC), and the earlier 1966 OECD Report 'Science and Irish Economic Development'.

The general background of graduates was analysed by sector and discipline, and projected taking into account the age-profiles as elucidated in the census returns. The model was validated by a process of estimating 1971 figures from a 1967 base-line.

A serious mismatch was exposed between the output of the higher education system and the needs of industry, especially for graduates having science qualifications. Procedures were suggested for encouraging young graduate uptake, such as encouraging mobility and entrepreneurship among experienced graduates employed in the State agencies, and developing masters-degree programmes to enable science graduates to achieve an industrial applied-science problem-solving orientation.

The paper attracted an audience which included the UCD and TCD careers officers (Derek Scholefield and Dermot Montgomery), Catherine Keenan of the National Economic and Social Council, Dr Diarmuid Murphy, Monica Nevin, Dr RC Geary, Paid McMenamin, Professor BM Walsh and AP O'Reilly. The responses were all substantive and reflected an appreciation that a significant problem had been identified and quantified. The consensus was not 'reduce output of graduates' but 'stimulate uptake by industry', and many of the people in the audience were in a position to influence policies in this direction, and did. Some of the seeds that led to the prosperity of the 90s were I think sown on this occasion.

The raw material of the paper had emerged from just such a 'problem-solving re-orientation' MSc programme (Operational Research and Statistics) pioneered in TCD by Professor Gordon Foster. Genevieve Franklin, along with Aoileann Ni h-Eigeartaigh, had earlier participated in this course, after completing honours maths degrees, and had gained some experience in computer-based modelling of techno-economic systems, in support of planning decisions.

It was hoped at the time that the result of this work might have become embedded somehow in a national 'skilled human resources planning' unit, perhaps in the IDA or elsewhere, but this did not take place, and it remained a 'one-off' exercise. The philosophy behind it however has subsequently gained general acceptance, and is now the norm.

I remained an occasional attender during the 1980s and 1990s(25), and on occasion commented, in a manner which indicated the evolution of my concerns.

On December 2 1982 there was a symposium on 'Industrial Policy in Ireland' with papers from Kieran Kennedy (ESRI), Frances Ruane (TCD) and Padraic White, then Chief Executive of the IDA. I am minuted as having contributed, along with Sean Cromien, Tom Higgins, Declan Cunningham, L Leonard, Hugh Logue. E O'Malley, Paul Turpin, T McCabe, E McCarthy, F O Muircheartaigh, PJ Drudy, Richard Humphreys and RC Geary. This was in response to the Telesis Report.

My own contribution was brief; I quote it in full: 'we need to develop procedures for realising the potential value of the third-level education system as a job-generating resource. The tradition whereby graduates expect to be offered jobs needs to be replaced by one whereby graduates create their own jobs.'

I went on to say that '..the science/engineering/business links within the colleges need to be strengthened, with a view to encouraging the transformation of student into entrepreneur. The 'Deans Conference' on 'Education for Innovation' on March 30 1983 (sponsored by AIB and NBST)was a welcome step in this direction.'

At the time of this symposium I was fresh from the experience of the rise and fall of the TCD Applied Research Consultancy (ARC) Group and was attempting to generalise it, and in the process to re-invent my own entrepreneurial role. I had the feeling that there were opportunities associated with the process of high-tech firms spinning off from university-based research departments; Mentec ltd, founded by Dr Mike Peirce a short time previously, was an example. Dr Peirce had been a stalwart supporter of the ARC concept.

Dr RC Geary, who spoke as usual last among the commentators, enthused about the event. As usual he had incisive comments; this time he remarked that 'modern industry is antagonistic to employment', and viewed the socio-economic future with trepidation. I suspect that this may have been his last appearance at the SSISI, of which he reminded us on this occasion that he had been a member for 60 years, pre-dating the 1924 Oldham recruiting drive which brought in JJ. Geary was a quite remarkable internationally known figure, though mostly unsung in Ireland. He did however receive the Boyle Medal from the RDS, belatedly, in 1981, on the proposition of Cormac O Ceallaigh, who had been similarly honoured the previous year.

On March 2 1989 there was a symposium on 'the international dimension in corporate mergers and acquisitions', the speakers being John T Teeling and JJ Hayes. Both speakers were from the business world, the second being from Cement Roadstone Holdings (CRH). I am on record in the minutes as having contributed, along with some nine others, among whom, unusually, there was a significant business component.

I had been aware of the Nokia experience in Finland, where by employing development engineers they had diversified into telecommunications from having been in paper and pulp products, becoming globally significant in a knowhow-intensive industry. I put this to the CRH spokesman, who replied along the lines that the well-tried culture was to support the 'stick to the knitting' strategy, accept the small size of the home market, and go abroad with what you know how to do.

I had again run up against one of the main barriers to science and engineering graduate recruitment.

On March 29 1990, to celebrate the centenary of the death of Cardinal Newman, there was a Symposium on the Idea of a University in the 1990s (Vol XXVI Part II p125).

Colm O h-Eocha, President of UCG, in a relatively short paper welcomed the new Office of Science and Technology, and the associated 'Programmes of Advanced Technology' (PATs). Daniel O'Hare, President of DCU, in a longer paper projected a model in which the gap between CP Snow's 'Two Cultures' would be bridged and gave some international comparisons. Norman Gibson, pro-vice-Chancellor of UU, harked back to Newman, with approval, and voiced some criticism of the then current Thatcherite philistine utilitarian attitude of government to universities.

This discussion included a contribution of mine, as well as ones from Roger Fox, AC Cunninghan, Damian Hannon, P O'Flynn, Frances Ruane, Bob O'Connor and Dr C Fanning. Regrettably only Roger Fox's is on record. This is perhaps an indication of increasing pressures on the individual participants, who needed to sit down and put their contributions on record afterwards, and send them in. I regret that I failed to do so at this time; I was under pressure having taken up full-time employment after a bad period. However I have some recollection of what I probably said, having distilled the experience of the previous two decades working at the university-industry interface. What follows is a reconstruction:

Any university centre of research is associated with a teaching domain and generates postgraduates of two types: basically MScs and PhDs. The former tend to be partially taught and partially by project, and the projects are usually of a practical problem-solving nature, and in some cases are industrially sponsored. The PhDs on the other hand tend to look to develop the basic knowledge of the domain in depth. There is sometimes an 'us and them' attitude between these two streams, and little interaction.

I put forward a model in which there should be an MSc/PhD ratio targeted as a matter of policy, that the MScs should be funded by the State as part of the industrial innovation programme, with a related contribution from the sponsoring firm, measured in terms of time and attention from a key change-agent, who would have the status of an extern supervisor.

The PhDs on the other hand should be directly funded by the State (ie given a living wage, and the research unit or department given a contribution to overheads), in numbers related to the number of industry-sponsored MScs generated by the postgraduate system. It might be appropriate to fund say one PhD for every 3 MScs, based on a moving average over a few years.

A well-run department or unit would ensure that these streams interacted, via research seminars, and experience was shared in both directions.

The funding of this system would be State-dependent, but conditional on sponsoring innovative firms giving time to the supervision and problem-definition. This would be an indirect State support-system for the in-firm innovation process. The sponsoring firms would then have the option of recruiting the MSc when the project had been completed at the academic level, with a view to developing it further perhaps in the direction of a marketable concept. The PhD people in the background would be producing results perhaps relevant to future generations of MScs.

I had occasionally seen aspects of this vision working in my previous TCD epoch, but the episodes were sporadic, haphazard and tantalising. To make it happen systematically would require a totally different approach to funding of postgraduate research, and I put forward the above model with this in mind.

Notes and References

2. At the time of the war of independence and the civil war JJ was in frequent correspondence with the Albert Kahn Foundation in Paris, and there is reference in the correspondence with their Executive Secretary Charles Garnier to the setting up of a Resource Centre in Ireland, dedicated to the problem of the peaceful democratic transformation of conflict situations, and a co-operative approach to economic development. Garnier wanted this in TCD but JJ diverted it to Plunkett House, as he had no faith in the ability of TCD to service the type of users he had in mind, namely his visionary projected new breed of co-op managers. There is no trace of this in either Plunkett House or in the Plunkett Foundation records, that I can find. Not is there any trace in the Plunkett House records of the period when they hosted the SSISI. My conjecture is that JJ sought to cement the link between Plunkett House, the SSISI and the Albert Kahn Foundation, the focus being the Plunkett House Library. The rift between Plunkett and Ireland generated by the Civil War killed this creative initiative, which if it had succeeded might have transformed Irish economic policies in the 1920s and 30s.

3. JJ's own contributions are outlined in the 1920s SSISI module in the hypertext support material; they were Some Causes and Consequences of Distributive Waste (J SSISI vol XIV p353, 1926-7) and National Transport Problems (JSSISI XIV, 53, 1929-30). The first of these papers was a close follower to the Duncan-Finlay paper; Mortished and Eason spoke to it.

4. The French experience arising from the Rockefeller Fellowship surfaced in JJ's addendum to the 1926 Prices Commission Report.

5. It is on a potential future research agenda for someone to track down to what this related; there must have been some political objective.

6. The 1930s ssisi module in the hypertext contains abstracts of two papers by JJ: A Plea for Winter Dairying (JSSISI XV, 33, 1930-31) and Aspects of the Agricultural Crisis at Home and Abroad (JSSISI XV, 79, 1934-5).

7. JJ's paper Aspects of the Agricultural Depression at home and abroad (JSSISI XV, 79, 1934-5) was read on May 23 1935; speakers included Duncan (TCD), Eason and George O'Brien; there was also Major Barrow, who was a large-scale labour-employing commercial farmer near Castle Bellingham, and a neighbour of JJ when he had lived near Dundalk from 1928 to 1932.

8. See the 1930s outreach module in the hypertext.

9. The Engineering and Science Society may have an archive, but I have not chased this hare. The society is moribund, having been upstaged by the Institution of Engineers of Ireland (IEI) and its precursors. There is some socio-technical history here perhaps worth looking into, in the context of the analysis of the evolution of the culture of science and technology in the transition to political independence. There may even be lurking a religious sectarian dimension in the culture.

10. The Capitalisation of Irish Agriculture', JSSISI xvi p44 1941-2.

11. The Future of Irish external trade (JSSISI symposium meeting, April 27, 1944).

12. An Economic Basis for an Irish Rural Civilisation (JSSISI Vol xvii, p1, 1947-8).

13. This movement, associated with architect Emer O Siochru, environmental consultant Jack O'Sullivan and others, is a network of people who seek to organise and focus a drift away from metropolitan living towards economically rejuvenated villages, some of which might be in a position to export high-technology services via the Internet.

14. Social Security White Paper symposium (JSSISI xviii pt 3, 262, 1949-50).

15. Raw Material for Animal Husbandry (JSSISI xviii, 392, 1950-51).

16. In this session it was recorded that JF Knaggs joined; the latter subsequently became the Head of the CSO, and went on to head the European statistics office in Luxembourg. He had trained as a physicist along with the present writer, in TCD in the 40s. JJ's participation as President in the discussions is alas only partially on the record.

17. Economic Leviathans (JSSISI xix pt 1, 42, 1952-3); this paper was the second of his presidency, and was delivered on February 5 1953. It was a monumental attempt to summarise the history of the interactions between the 'leviathans', Britain and the US, in the interstices of whose turbulent movements we in our small boat, and other European nations, have to survive.

18. See the Irish Association thread, for which the hypertext is over-viewed in Appendix 9.

19. John Garmany was among the active local organiser of the Derry conference of the Irish Association in 1965 which had been planned to welcome the New University of Ulster, in the company of John Hume and others including the present writer. The keynote speaker was Carter, then Vice-Chancellor of Liverpool University. It was expected to celebrate the upgrade Magee College was due, but in the event the New University of Ulster (NUU) went to Coleraine. To this rebuff of the people west of the Bann, the subsequent Civil Rights movement must be in part attributed. See also the 1960s Irish Association module in the hypertext.

20. Symposium on Economic Development. JSSISI 1959, or perhaps 1960; I have mislaid the reference.

21. I have abstracted this paper in the 1960s SSISI module in the hypertext, from which the text is available in full.

22. See the 1960s SSISI module in the hypertext.

23. See also the 1960s SSISI module in the hypertext.

24. RHW Johnston and Genevieve Franklin, 'An Approach to National Manpower Planning in Science and Technology' (Vol XXIII Part II, p21).

25. My 1990s contributions are partially on record in the 1990s SSISI module of the hypertext; they were primarily related to networking in the ongoing innovation consultancy context.

Some navigational notes:

Copyright Dr Roy Johnston 2002